Sebastian Stahl [00:00:00]:

To do marketing properly, anything for any business, build your database. That's the first thing that I would tell them to do because they do. Many restaurant owners fail to do that. And they've approached me, you know, when they're, they approach me sometimes when they are not in a good place and they're trying to, hey, man, we need marketing. You know, and when I talk to them, I say, hey, do you have a database? And they're like, oh, no, we don't have anything. So we got to build that from scratch. So you know how long that's going to take, right? So we can definitely run ads. We'll do all these different things that you can do.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:00:35]:

But to make your marketing way more effective and cheaper in the long term, building a database is key.

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Angelo Esposito [00:00:45]:

Welcome to WISKing It All with your host, Angelo Esposito, co-founder of WISK.ai, a food and beverage intelligence platform. We're going to be interviewing hospitality professionals around the world, world to really understand how they do what they do. Welcome to another episode of WISKing It All. We're joined today with Sebastian Stahl, the CEO and founder of Breadth Marketing. It's a strategic restaurant marketing agency. Sebastian, thank you for being here with me today.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:01:18]:

Thanks, Angelo. Thanks for inviting me to your podcast, man. Happy to be here.

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Angelo Esposito [00:01:22]:

Yeah, I'm excited to have you on. Obviously, the theme of marketing is always interesting, but I think specifically interesting for our restaurants listeners. A lot of good, but a lot of bad advice out there. So hopefully we can go through some of the things you've learned over the years. But as always, I'd like to start with the kind of backstory of what got you into the hospitality space, man.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:01:45]:

Okay. So, dude, since I was. Since I was young, I mean, really in college, I started, like, developing this, I guess, taste for the restaurant business. You know, just seeing, you know, just going to restaurants in college and just seeing how everything worked and it seemed like an orchestra playing, you know what I mean? And I really liked that aspect. And I was always on the creative side of things. So I really liked the combination of how everything came together into one place, right from, you know, from the food, people, music, everything tying in together, just the flow of things. There was just something that, you know, connected with me out of college. And we started looking with, looking into this stuff with my brother, and we were looking into doing a franchise at that time, Latin America.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:02:28]:

And that didn't happen, fortunately, because that wouldn't have been a good decision with that franchise. But after that, we got into, you know, developing a concept at that time, it was, you know, still, Chipotle was kind of new. All these, you know, cool things happening. PeI Wei was kind of new, too, like, you know, at that time, like, these concepts that were growing. And so we started developing our own concept with my two brothers. Actually, both are older than me, but each one of us kind of had their own thing going on. And so it was me that stayed with the restaurant, and these guys kind of, like, they went their own way, and I stuck to, you know, going with the restaurant. So, you know, that's how I got started to open.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:03:11]:

The first restaurant, actually, was in Guatemala City back in 2005, and it was a fast, casual concept at that time. Again, it was kind of fairly new. The whole thing, it was kind of developing still, and. And that's what we did, man. So that's how I got into it. I was open breakfast, lunch, and dinner, which was insane because I didn't know what the hell I was getting into. And every day, every day, man, so pretty fast, I learned how crazy and my decision was and how hard it is and to be executing at a restaurant at that level. And of course, I, you know, I just, I was everywhere.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:03:54]:

I was in the kitchen. I was, you know, I was on the floor. I was just doing everything, you know, everything that seemed glamorous about a restaurant. It really isn't.

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Angelo Esposito [00:04:02]:

Yeah. And what are some of the things you learn? You know, I mean, I love talking to restaurateurs and entrepreneurs in general, but I love talking to restaurateurs and understanding, you know, what kind of walls they hit or things they didn't anticipate. So as you kind of started this first venture restaurant, it's exciting. And then now open, what are some things that kind of, like, hit you that, that stood out that you maybe didn't anticipate?

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Sebastian Stahl [00:04:27]:

Oh, man, there were just so many of them, you know, no idea how to streamline operations, you know, at that time. And that's a big one if you don't know. It's just, you know, bringing a bunch of, bunch of items into your menu, doing everything because you want to get it right, you want to have great recipes and all that stuff. But execution wise, it's terrible, you know? Also, again, like I said, the hours were just insane, and I would have never opened for breakfast if I knew, like, what I was getting into. So that was the stupidest idea because it wasn't even a breakfast joint. It was more of, like, a lunch and dinner space.

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Angelo Esposito [00:05:00]:

So that, did you have, I gotta ask, did you have people coming for breakfast at all or not even just a few.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:05:06]:

I was, like, trying to build it, but it was terrible. You know, it was just a bad idea in general of the honesty. Yeah, man, it was, it was. It sucked. But, you know, lunch and dinner was actually pretty solid. We started getting into delivery and all that stuff that was also working well. But then staffing, man, just like, really. I think really at that time, I wasn't a great leader.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:05:28]:

I just, you know what I mean? Like, I was just trying to get things going and learning, you know, learning as I went. And I knew a little bit because I might buy. Before getting into the restaurant business, I was actually working in different companies. I worked for Leo Burnett, like a big advertising agency, and I worked for Keller Company, the cereal company, and marketing. So that was my background. But, like, restaurant operations, I was just figuring everything out as I went. You know what I mean? I had nobody to talk to. I mean, my cousin was, he's a restauranteur as well.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:05:55]:

So my uncle, italian guy and very, very solid operator. And he was very successful in the city and, you know, have a few restaurants. And that's what I had to, you know, took off on and it just reading, you know, I mean, but so there was quite a bit of things that I have no idea. And I messed up. I just messed up. But. And that's it. And then I wasn't even.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:06:18]:

When it comes to numbers and, like, you know, managing the finances at that time, when you're operating, like, you know, seven to close in the morning, it's not. There was no time. So, you know, it was a mess with, you know, food cost books and all that stuff. It took me a while to be able to kind of catch up and start, like, getting that stuff organized, you know, so those are just a few.

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Angelo Esposito [00:06:40]:

Things, man, I can only imagine. I can only imagine the stuff you learn. But honestly, it's like opening a restaurant is probably like a, you know, for lack of a better analogy, it's probably like a exponential version of like an NBA, just in the sense that, like, running any business hard. But I personally feel like running a restaurant is probably just all that, but, like worse and harder because it's just like, real. There's just so many things that have to go right. Some that are in your control, some that are out. You're dealing with perishable products, you're dealing with staff. You deal with technology, you're dealing with, you know, retail.

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Angelo Esposito [00:07:13]:

Like, there's just. It's. It's literally like dealing with everything. You're dealing with online, you're dealing with marketing. So it's like, it's almost like, do you want to learn everything about business? Start a restaurant? Because you're going to have to learn everything. But having said, I'm curious to know, like, you know, so from that, from those early days, really cool that you took that risk, right? Because I think it's probably was a step into leading you where you are today at Breadth. So, like, what was the evolution? So after that restaurant, was it straight to the, like, where the idea for Breadth come? Or were you working in other restaurants.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:07:40]:

Before that came much later? So that was, you know, 2005. And, you know, again, I was, some of the things that I wasn't doing because I didn't have the time was marketing. And I knew marketing at that time, which was still, you know, that was 2005, still social media and all that stuff was getting started. And I mean, I remember, you know, Facebook and all that stuff, but.

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Angelo Esposito [00:08:00]:

Right.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:08:01]:

I mean, I wasn't, I didn't have the time. I was just operating, you know, so, you know, after that, he actually, I, that restaurant we sold, and then I went to, I was, I was, went to Miami, and then Miami, I actually got a master's degree. And then I swore that I was never going to get back into restaurant industry because it was insane. Sane. And, you know, I wasn't going to get into it again. And then I had the idea again of opening another restaurant in my, it's like the Godfather stuff, man. Once you're pulling me back in.

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Angelo Esposito [00:08:34]:

Yeah, exactly. What's pulled me back. That's so true. And so tell me more about that, you know, before we jump into Breadth. I like always hearing the evolution. So, you know, from first restaurant learning a lot. Come to Miami, get your masters. Now you're like, hey, you know what? I want a bit more of a beating.

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Angelo Esposito [00:08:48]:

Let me open a restaurant in Miami. So what was the concept? Tell me a bit more about what happens.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:08:53]:

So in, so in Miami, it was a complete different animal. The US is completely different, you know, and just talking about cost and investment, I had no idea what we were going to spend, you know, and it was always triple where you're going to really going to spend. So anyways, so I started asking around, you know, like, trying to find out, you know, how this thing would, you know, go, how we could do it. And I found a couple of restaurant consultants, you know, just trying to understand the city and everything. And so I started, you know, basically putting the numbers together and all that stuff, the business plan, which businesses plan business plans. If you've been in it, they go to shit in a sec. So we found, you know, I started seeing that, and it was. Yeah, it was going to be a pretty expensive project, right? So we.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:09:39]:

I started working with a partner also. Then he got into the business with me, and so we did. We started putting it together. We actually were. We had some good guidance. We actually hired the. He was the ex director of think food group of the Jose Andreas Group. So he was a very nice guy.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:09:57]:

His name's Tony. And he basically, he guided us at the beginning, you know, because, like, how to do things there and, you know, how to set everything up. When we had.

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Angelo Esposito [00:10:05]:

And was the concepts. Just to ask real quick, was the concept also vast, casual, or was this more of a full service?

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Sebastian Stahl [00:10:11]:

This was full service.

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Angelo Esposito [00:10:12]:

Full service, complete.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:10:13]:

Different animal, man. So, like, yeah, I didn't even know what I was getting into, honestly. So, you know, full service restaurant. We. And I had this, you know, I did envision that I had this sense that where we were opening was going to develop pretty quickly because it was up and coming. It was windward. Now, Windwood is completely developed in Miami, and it's just like the hot spot, right? So at that time, you know, it was still a little bit ghetto ish, so. But it was up and coming, and it was really cool.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:10:39]:

All the artworks and all the stuff that was happening in the area. So we were, you know, we were fortunate to get a great space on North Miami Avenue, you know, with a pretty big space and with a parking lot in the back, and we basically double the size of the restaurant by doing it, a terrace. And so, you know, it was pretty cool, man. Like, we got good rent at that time. Now it's crazy. But anyway, so that's what happened. And it was a asian, Latin inspired concept. We worked with a chef that used to be the head of the chef, the cuisine at Noble.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:11:10]:

So he had really good experience and, you know, food we were looking for, so. And we tried all different things, man. We worked with different chefs. We worked with him, and we came up with a really cool menu. And the execution was very creative, you know, with how we were presenting things. And it was kind of, like, inspired with streets. And so we had, like, you know, different things, you know, from, like, a ceviche in a bag that we were. That we had served.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:11:31]:

Like, I don't know, it was. It was. It was cool ideas, but execution wise, it was a nightmare. But so, you know, learned a lot. There man, we opened that restaurant first. I remember just, you know, friends and family night, or, I don't know if it was friends and family, if it was the media night, and it was just pouring. It was summertime, and so, like, the AC unit wasn't working properly. It was hot as hell.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:11:52]:

There's a ton of people in there. And then the water was coming in because it came from the terrace inside the restaurant.

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Angelo Esposito [00:11:57]:

So, like, flooding, when it rains, it pours, right?

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Sebastian Stahl [00:12:02]:

Like, extremely hot. People sweating. You know what I mean? I was just having a meltdown trying to get this going, man.

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Angelo Esposito [00:12:10]:

Every time, trying to make the ceviche in a bag as it's raining.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:12:14]:

Let me get you the full experience on your table, you know what I mean? Like, all these visions that, you know, all these visions that you think about that are going to come out really neat, but once you do them, they suck. You're like, wow, man, that's not going to work out. So that's part of the process. You know, it was. It was a really cool concept, man. Like, the space was really nice, the outdoor area and everything. After we got, we were able to work it out. It flowed really well.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:12:40]:

But it was. It was a weekend thing, man, because windward at that time, it was very up and coming still people. There was not enough traffic during the, you know, during weekdays. And I made it wrong that we also made some different, you know, bad judgments in terms of how the market worked and how it behaved, you know, in terms of. I. We assume that, like, Midtown and Windward, which are really, really close, everything would be together in terms of the market. And it really is. And it's completely different.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:13:05]:

Like, wind was a whole different ballgame. Midtown is a whole different ball game. So it wouldn't mix. So we were assuming we're going to get traffic during the week from Midtown, and it didn't happen. You know, like, you know, at that time, it was only a bunch of photographers and artists living in Wynwood. It wasn't, you know, what it is now. Nobody can afford to live there now, like the artist needs. It's expensive, but Miami in general, but.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:13:28]:

But that's what happened. So it was high operating cost also is very different, man, from, you know, being an owner, being in the trenches, and then having. And, you know, When you're working with other people that are guiding you, but they haven't really been where you are, the guidance that you can receive is not really the best. They mean well, but when you're at that point where you need to run with a skeleton crew and be able to make your operation truly efficient, to sustain and be able to move forward, you need hands-on experience. I had it. We're like, "Okay, let's streamline this whole thing. Let's cut the menu. Let's change this, let's change that."

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Sebastian Stahl [00:14:08]:

But I was still inexperienced with many things. But so going through this process, I learned a lot of, you know, how things needed to work. And then, you know, after that restaurant, you know, we came to a decision to actually, you know, either sell or partner with somebody who were looking for a solution because we had made a large investment in that restaurant and, you know, we're trying to save it. And if you've been there, you know, The people who have been there, of closing a restaurant, it's heart-wrenching. It's your baby, it's your concept. You put your heart in it. The food was fantastic and we got great reviews, all that stuff, but you still don't see it work. And that's why the restaurant business is so hard because it's not just one thing.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:14:47]:

There's so many things that need to be working and everything needs to be in place: from your operations to your space to your location, marketing, streamline of operations cost, everything.

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Angelo Esposito [00:14:59]:

Everything. Your point? You can have amazing reviews, which is a heart in itself, but you have great reviews, great food behind the scenes. You're not making a profit, you're bleeding money. You're not busy four days of the week. Your operating costs are too high or just your overhead too high. Like, there's so many other factors. You know, you can't hold on to food forever. It's perishable.

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Angelo Esposito [00:15:21]:

So you got wastage, you got. Yeah, yeah. I kind of, out of curiosity, what was, because, you know, I know it was different. One was in Miami and one was in Guatemala City. But what would you say from your point of view was some of the pros and cons of, you know, and I know it was also just different points of your life and whatnot. But in general of a fast casual versus an FSR, completely different.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:15:45]:

I mean, it's fast casual. It's, you know, you can really streamline the operation and it can be a lot more efficient in terms of how you do that. And it's a lot. It's a lot more simple in many regards, right. In service team members, you know, inventory costs, like everything, right? Because it's like a limited menu and it's made fresh everything. Right. But with full service, there's a lot more that goes into it. Right.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:16:13]:

So you're staffing the size of the operation. You know what I mean?

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Angelo Esposito [00:16:17]:

Reservations, bar, liquor licenses.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:16:22]:

Exactly. Liquor licenses, which are super expensive, you know, getting to your bar program, inventories, all of these different things that, you know, they're so different in a full service restaurant than a QSR or events, which are very profitable. Right. But, you know, executing those properly, that's a whole different thing.

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Angelo Esposito [00:16:43]:

Right.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:16:44]:

I mean, many differences, man. And then also, I mean, between the US and Latin America, of course, costs are very different, you know, and then also culture. And then, yeah, costs are completely different. You can open a restaurant in Latin America for a lot less than you can in states, correct. Just. Especially Miami. Just to play ball, you got to just look at permits, right? And that's like, that just goes out the window. And.

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Angelo Esposito [00:17:09]:

Again, that's a good tip. Yeah. From scratches is a hefty investment, to say. I mean, it's hefty investment no matter what, but from scratch is probably another level. And nothing ever goes according to plan, which, which is the other thing. So, like, you kind of alluded to whatever, budgeting, double it, you know, and. And some. And then you're probably there.

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Angelo Esposito [00:17:30]:

And I'm curious, so what ended up happening? I know you said it's tough to close. So, like, eventually, you know, did you guys partner, did you sell? What happened? And then, like, what made you say, hey, it's time, you know, like, what led to Breadth?

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Sebastian Stahl [00:17:43]:

Listen, man, so at that time, it was. It was a very. It was a difficult time. But I would tell you, I look back on it with actually, with certain nostalgia and in a good way, because it was a moment that helped me to grow in many different ways. Right. Not only as a professional, but as a person as well. Because when you're too attached to material things into your success, into your business, you can suffer quite a bit going through that, and because of all this, like, self image that you may have of yourself that you want to maintain of yourself. So that was really stripped away from all those things at that time.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:18:16]:

And I was able to, honestly was, for me, it was a spiritual experience in a way. I can tell you that business, and that's the way I see it. And that's the way I see life in general, man. Because there's. That's how things happen. We can talk about the practical stuff, but if you look deep into it, that's kind of what happened. And so it was really cool. You know, it was a good experience in that sense where I was really just, you know, honestly, dude, I just gave it to God and just like, okay, let's see.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:18:38]:

Let's. Let's. Let's see what's. What we can do. And she started looking at opportunities, taking it, you know, the next right step. And so we talked to a bunch of people that were interested in the space because it was. Honestly, it's a great space. And, you know, I was living at the time in Brickwell Avenue.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:18:52]:

Like, I was in front of this other small restaurant, our great ceviche spot, you know, like a peruvian place on Brickland first. And I had met the owner there a while back, and we just became friends. He was a nice guy from, you know, from Mexico, and we just, you know, we talked, and he gave me his business card. But anyways, I hadn't even given a second, given it a second thought, you know, because I was like, that's a very small restaurant. I don't know how is this going to translate to this space, you know? But for some reason, I thought about it, you know, there's no coincidences. And I pulled out the card, and I called him up, and I just said, hey, man, listen, this is what's happening. We have this beautiful space. This restaurant is not doing well, you know, I think.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:19:36]:

But I'm looking for a partner. We're looking to do something here. And I think that your concept might be a good fit because there's no sushi places at that time in Wynwood, they didn't have any sushi places, especially. Also, it was an affordable price, and there was nothing like that in the area. Right. You know, it was that in that concept, a mix between fast cash flow and full service, it's like a. It's like a hybrid. So.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:19:58]:

So the guy, it turns out, man, he says, yeah, let's. Let's talk. He came to the restaurant. We sat down. I remember having dinner there. Still. We were still open. And, you know, he was.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:20:08]:

And what he said is like, dude, actually, what? I was already looking for a space to open up a bigger restaurant in this area. So this is perfect. So. So we made a deal right then and there. That's how it happened. That's quick. That's how quickly it happened. And from, basically, it took us, like, three months to close, turn it around, remodel, and open, and that's awesome.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:20:34]:

It was crazy. Yeah. So it was very. It was. It was. It was great, man. It was. It was very fortunate.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:20:41]:

Again, I think it was a blessing in so many ways for everybody involved, because, I mean, we were able to kind of keep the, you know, the space, the restaurant. We did not lose the investment at that time. We were able to kind of split the cake in different. In different ways for, you know, for that restaurant.

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Angelo Esposito [00:20:54]:

That's awesome.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:20:54]:

And. And this guy had a lot of different ways of doing things. You know, he was very structured, very process oriented, very smart guy, and very nice guy. And so we started working together. We're still managing that restaurant. At that time, I had to basically put on the student, you know, hat and kind of step back and learn their processes, everything. So it was a humbling experience, you know, to say the least, at that time. But it was, you know, it just helped me see things in a whole different way.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:21:23]:

So, you know, I learned.

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Angelo Esposito [00:21:24]:

I'm sure you learned a lot. No, I'm sure you probably learned quite a bit at that time.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:21:28]:

100%, man. I learned a ton, you know, because, again, it was very, very different, and so how everything was done. They had a commissary kitchen already with, you know, a couple restaurants. So it was thinking long term. It was thinking structure was processes. So that's why, dude, I don't think it's a great idea for creatives to get in the restaurant business. If they're gonna contribute, yes. But don't have them operate.

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Angelo Esposito [00:21:50]:

Right, right, yeah. Don't mix the two, because usually the creative way sometimes could be, like, to your point, like with the. With the bags, or might not be the most streamlined process. Right.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:22:01]:

So, you know, that restaurant started doing well since the beginning. You know, we opened that restaurant, and again, it was a perfect fit for the area. It is still the highest selling restaurant for the group at this time because, you know, it evolved. It's still around, man. It's been around. It's the highest selling restaurant.

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Angelo Esposito [00:22:18]:

That in itself is a feat. Right? Like, restaurants usually last, like, two years. So the fact that it's, what, ten years now or whatever it may be, so that's awesome.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:22:25]:

Yeah, it's been over ten years, man. And it was pretty neat. It was pretty cool. And it was just, you know, a very small crew of us. At the beginning, it was this guy, his brother, great people. And then the director of operations that time. His name's Ryan. He works at.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:22:40]:

He works at toast now. But at that time, we didn't like each other, actually. But then we became friends, and it was cool, man, and we started growing. Now it's a grew from that at that time, and I stepped out of operations, went into marketing, and it grew into a multi unit and concept hospitality group in Miami. It has a lot presence now there with, you know, all these different concepts. And so I got this. I got to experience and go through the development of, you know, a small kind of mom and pops thing to what it is now.

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Angelo Esposito [00:23:19]:

That's so cool. And then how did you go from, you know, running, I guess, more operationally running the. The multiple restaurant concepts, obviously learning a lot. How did those experiences then lead you to say, hey, I want to start a restaurant marketing, you know, agency?

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Sebastian Stahl [00:23:36]:

So what happened was that once I stepped out of operations, which I was really happy to do, that I went into marketing, man, and I started just kind of figuring things out, right, because I. My background was marketing, but it was. It was a complete different ballgame now with social media right now was really, you know, getting into Instagram, getting into all of these things. And at the time, I didn't really have the knowledge that I have now, of course, but I started, you know, learning quickly and how we can market the restaurants. And as you know, restaurants are kind of. They were slow into adopting a lot of the technology that other businesses had before. So there was a lot of issues with tracking. There was a lot of issues with, like, figuring out what was working.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:24:16]:

There was a lot of issues like, dude, how do we make this work? You know what I mean? And building a database and doing all these different things. Also, we had tried the PR side, which PR, I think it has its place, and it's very good for particular, you know, points or particular seasons, like, you know, for the restaurant, depending on the concept that you have. But once you go through the initial phase of opening or let's say you're doing a new menu, lunch or a new location, whatever, PR will just go to a certain extent as far as it can go. I mean, because it's not going to drive traffic, so. And it's. And it can be expensive, too. So we were just, I was trying to figure out, okay, how can I make this work? What happened was, and again, we didn't have the budget to hire a full team, so I had to hire agencies, you know, so we were going through that process and, you know, and. And I started working with different agencies that they didn't really have the experience in the restaurant world because they were very.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:25:06]:

There were not many restaurant marketing agencies at the time. Now there's more. But, and also they were, they were very expensive. Most agencies, you know, they were like, man, how can we afford this? Like restaurants margins are not great. You know, they're not really big. So I was trying to, you know, how can we make this work? Anyways, we started working with different agencies trying to get this thing done properly. And it was a challenge, man. Nobody, they, nobody really understood restaurants because when it comes to restaurants, as you know, it's just a whole different ballgame.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:25:33]:

Like, you know, okay, you can have ideas and you can execute different things, but if you don't know operations, if you don't know how the restaurant moves and how things affect cost, the people that are actually executing your fancy promotion at your restaurant, right. Operation is gonna hate you. They didn't really know the tools or the platforms for restaurants and all these things and how they could, we could find ways that, you know, to work with them and to be able to really show an ROI right on what we were doing. And we were really one of, I think, you know, because I remember working with a, with a couple of marketing agencies and we were investing in paid ads and all that stuff. And these guys were like, man, you guys are like the only restaurants, like, investing in this now. You know, at that time. And because I, you know, I saw that there was definitely, that was a rise. That was the way to go.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:26:23]:

But so anyways, out of those frustrations, you know, and out of the frustration that I experienced as a restaurant owner, not being able to do marketing properly because I didn't have the time, and also with experiencing frustrations going through different agencies that didn't know the business and then going through and figuring out this whole process of how to do this right and how to really show an ROI for the things that we were doing for our concepts, right. And my job was on the line too, man, and our profits were on the line as well. So I had to figure this out.

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Angelo Esposito [00:26:54]:

Learn quick.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:26:55]:

Yeah, exactly. So I figured out all the platforms, you know, and I figured out, you know, I wanted, you know, because agencies would tell you, show you some graphics or whatever, hey, here's the clicks here. The open rate. Like that's, that doesn't really mean too much to me, you know. So I started learning about, you know, every single platform. I went in the back and I learned everything about it. I read everything about it until I started figuring out how to do it, you know, myself, because I saw that they weren't able to execute at the level that I needed to. So then that idea came at that time was like, okay, man, like, there's definitely a need here.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:27:28]:

There's definitely, you know, because I would see, other restaurants struggle with this. A need for an agency that understands restaurants, that understand strategy most of all, because that's what drives everything else. You know, running ads, anybody can do, but. But doing it right and understanding strategy and how to really pinpoint the opportunities for restaurants in their different revenue centers where they can grow, that was the challenge, you know what I mean? So that's kind of where this idea came from because I knew restaurants, I knew operations and a new strategy both operationally and in marketing. So let me just kind of come up with an all inclusive solution for restaurants where we can actually take it over from strategy to execution on all digital channels. So that's kind of how Breadth was born in my mind and then.

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Angelo Esposito [00:28:15]:

Oh God. So, yeah, so you got this idea in your mind. And I'm curious right before we hit the COVID because, yeah, that's gonna be turn of events. But, you know, I know now, you know, looking at your website and stuff, you do everything as you mentioned, from strategic planning to the actual branding and social media management, design, content, reputation management, SEO, web design, et cetera, et cetera. But in the early days, obviously, I assume you maybe started off with maybe one or two of those things. I'm curious, like, what were the things that you can immediately help restaurants with from the marketing perspective? Let's say in the earlier days, I know now it's really like a 360, but in the early days, was there like one or two niches that you did really well?

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Sebastian Stahl [00:28:53]:

I. It was full service at that time was like my thing because I knew full service very, very well. So that's kind of how it started, actually. My first clients were these guys, you know, from the group that I was working with because, you know, I was a partner with. I'm still a partner with these guys, but, you know, that's why who they. Those were my first clients because Covid happened. Everything went to crap, basically, and nobody had any money. And basically it was a transition was made for me, you know, I mean, because I had already this plan and I was already working on it because I didn't.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:29:21]:

I did want to go in, right, and kind of do my own deal, but this just accelerated it, you know. So when that happened, these guys were my first clients because it was cheaper for them to pay me as an agency that, to pay me as an. As a, you know, the director. So that's how it started out and I was starting it. So with them, it was pretty easy because I was already doing the same thing that I was doing for them. Basically, you know what I mean?

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Angelo Esposito [00:29:46]:

Right. And just to pinpoint some things, because I want our audience to, like, think of some examples. So you're partnering with this group, and now you're kind of taking over their marketing. What are some of the things you're doing, like, strategically? Like, I imagine, you know, you mentioned reputation management, social media. Like, what are some things you were doing? And, like, can you just, like, touch on those first thing?

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Sebastian Stahl [00:30:06]:

Like I said, you know, Everything stems from strategy, understanding what the needs are for each restaurant. Each location is a little bit different, even if you have multi-units. They vary in needs. Some locations might be doing great for lunch, other locations might not, depending on the location that they're at. So we're looking at patterns, we're looking at your revenue centers, and we're trying to identify where there's opportunities for growth.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:30:32]:

And that doesn't mean, because, let's say your happy hour sucks that you're going to be able to actually push happy hour if your location is not right, because you can invest a lot in happy hour and trying to push that, you know, all you want, but if you're not in the right spatial location or menu, all of these things are not in place. It's not gonna work, man. So you have to find what's going to work for each restaurant. So in this case, instead of focusing on that, we knew that lunch was doing well, and we still have space for, like, driving more traffic. Why don't we just focus on that and grow it even more? Instead of trying to, like, shred water, you know, trying to build something a day part that doesn't eat, this is not going to work. Right. And that's a mistake that I see a lot of restaurants making that, you know, with our clients, like, hey, let me. Let me build dinner time.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:31:15]:

And you're not. And you're a known breakfast spot. You know, it's a stretch, man. So.

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Angelo Esposito [00:31:21]:

Yeah, it's funny, though, because on that point, real quick, I think it's like, we also do that on an individual basis, which it took me a while to learn this, but it's like, we're almost taught sometimes. Like, oh, yeah. Like, if you have a weak area, focus on it. But in a weird way, like, that's not great advice. It's like, if you suck at excel, like, it's probably not. Like, sure, maybe take a weekend course or you don't suck as much, but really, the idea is, like, why don't you double down on the thing you're good at and just get better so you can, like, stand out. Then, like, try to just look at the things you suck at and get. And get okay at them.

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Angelo Esposito [00:31:53]:

And I think, I think, to your point, it's similar in that kind of day part thing. It's like you always look at the new shiny thing. You're like, oh, we're not doing dinner. Okay, there's the opportunity, but it's like, no, no, you're doing lunch. Lunch is doing well. There's room to grow it. How do we grow it?

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Sebastian Stahl [00:32:06]:

And that's it. It's the same with your menu, right? Like, you know, you can think about, hey, I have, you know, you have this menu. It's working. And then you want to add more things to it. Here's, you know, you can, but don't. Don't go that route yet, you know, again, so that's what we do in the, in the first place. It's like, it's examining where you're at, identifying your strengths and identifying, you know, opportunities for, you know, amongst your revenue centers and see what makes sense for your restaurant. You know, a lot of that, a lot of what we're doing now is a lot of lead generation for private events because especially with what's going on now, it just makes a ton of sense because you can control the cost.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:32:45]:

It's a high ticket item, and it's something tangible that you're getting, you know, in front of you. So, so that's kind of where we start. But then everything else, again, as I mentioned, they're just channels. You know what I mean? If you do, if you, if you base everything from strategy and then you go into social and you have a strategy for social that's going to be led by this, things that you identified here, then it's gonna work. If you just go, let me just post some pretty pictures and phone videos, it's not gonna do.

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Angelo Esposito [00:33:10]:

Yeah.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:33:10]:

Right. And then also, there's a whole misperception of what social media actually is. Restaurants think, or a lot of restaurant owners think that marketing is just social media. And as you know, that's true at all because it's just a little part and it's just a channel. Right, but yes, and there's ways that you can do it. Right. But they're just so much more. So, again, it's identifying the strategy, creating the strategy, and identifying the channels are you gonna use to communicate with people and, and depending on the restaurant concept that you have, those are the channels that are you're going to use and you're gonna see which ones are the most effective.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:33:44]:

You gotta use all of them. You're not just gonna use one of them. So let's say you have email, SmS, you know, you have your, you know, your push notification through your app, you have paid ads.

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Angelo Esposito [00:33:54]:

All of them are SEO. Yeah, exactly.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:33:56]:

SEO. All of that stuff you're going to use. You just have to know when and where because not everything is critical. It just depends on what you're going to be pushing. If it's a promotion or if it's going to be, let's say, a new menu items, like how do you, how are you going to go about this? Right? And, and then also using your team, because your team is also a huge marketing, you know, channel because they have to be trained, they have to know what's going on. So then communicate what you're putting out there because you have hundreds of people, you know, if you're fortunate, you have hundreds of people coming to your restaurant every day and you know that that's a touch point that you have between your team and them. So anyways, I hope that answers 100%.

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Angelo Esposito [00:34:39]:

That's super interesting. And like, just to, so definitely you're painting a much more clear picture and I can only imagine, right, like, all the services you offer, maybe to just give people an idea who would be the ideal type of customer that you guys work with. Is it single location and multi? Is it just multi? Like, tell me more, is it FSR? Is it a bit of everything? So I'd love to hear who you work with and then maybe we can go through some, like, you know, wins that you've done.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:35:04]:

Sure. So we work with both, really with full service and we also work with fast casual restaurants and we work with multi unit restaurants and we work with independent, you know, which is like single location independent restaurants, but it's mostly single location restaurants that have a certain revenue. Because the truth is that if you want to do this right, there needs to be a certain level of investment that you're going to need to make. Not just whatever you're going to pay us as a fee, but also in terms of paid advertising, where you're going to be spending on that. So I'm very transparent, you know, when we talk to restaurant owners because we just can't help everyone. I wish we thought we could. Right. So they have to be at a certain level for this to make sense for them and for us as well.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:35:50]:

Right. But basically what we do is take on their marketing as basically we would be their external, internal marketing team. And we do everything from strategy to, like I mentioned, to the exit to execution. So, yeah, the ideal scenario is, you know, multi unit restaurants from, you know, two to 1520 units, because that's like the perfect scenario because the distribution of cost works really well for them and then for us as well. And because at that point, they are not at the point yet where they want to hire a full team internally.

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Angelo Esposito [00:36:24]:

Right.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:36:24]:

But they're a point where they can. They prefer to hire an agency that knows restaurants, that can do this professionally for them until they grow enough. Until they can want to hire internally. Right. Or some people just prefer to keep us. You know, we've been working with some restaurants for, you know, four years since we started, and they just had. There are a certain level, they're multi unit restaurants, but it's just the, you know, there's a great collaboration and it works perfectly for both.

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Angelo Esposito [00:36:47]:

That makes sense. And, like, just, just to give an idea, like, I know you probably work with quite a few clients and there's a lot of different wins you give them, but like, any recent wins that come to mind, just to share with our audience, like, oh, we have this guy that we did just paid ads for and we drove x amount of revenue. Like, anything you can share is a nugget that comes to mind. I think it's cool.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:37:06]:

Yeah. A recent one was, you know, we do different things. Like I said, lead generation for private events has been, you know, really solid and it's been working. We've been doing it very successfully for different restaurants. And again, those were tangible results. But with one of our clients based in Broward in Florida, the Padrinos restaurants, great people, I think, you know, favorite people that they're fantastic. But basically we did a. We just recently, they were struggling with one of their locations.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:37:37]:

They were struggling with Saturday nights, actually, in their vocal location. And so there was a promotion that we came up with that they. Well, they actually came up with the actual promotion itself. We actually helped with marketing and developing the concept of it, but it was basically a. An experience instead of, you know, we're against. We're not really too. We don't really like discounting. We're about creating experiences and creating value.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:38:00]:

So then you can bring people. Right. So then we was. That's what really happened, right? So there was a Noche Cubana, so, like, cuban night that was created for Saturdays, and there was a set, basically a station, a carving station for, you know, roast pig. And we had a paella and all these different things that they had. And, and it was really about testing. Right. So we did the first night of that for a set price.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:38:20]:

I think it was, it was 40, $50 per person. And, and again, we ran a campaign, created the campaign for this all. They created the concept, everything. And then we ran it. And there was the first night, when you're comparing Saturday versus Saturday was, there was a 31% increase in sales and also a 30% increase in actually in reservations. So that was very successful for that. We did that, and once we tested it out for a few nights, we saw that it was successful. Now it's being implemented.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:38:50]:

It's already implemented in a couple of the other locations, and it's working really well there as well. So that's, that's kind of the process that we go through. We test when we see that it works, then we go into seeing, you know, implementing those, those things in a different locations. So that's just one example that comes to mind. And so, I mean, there's, there's a lot of them, but that's the first.

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Angelo Esposito [00:39:10]:

Yeah, and I noticed you have a bunch of case studies, too. So for people listening, there's, they can go to Breadthmarketing.com and there's, there's all kinds of case studies, but. And then definitely at the end, we'll do a quick plug so where people can find you and all that good stuff. But one of the things I always like to share is just any nuggets of wisdom because we have people listening with a lot of restauranteurs listening. And so, like, you know, obviously you do full on services and there's a lot of strategy, so it's hard to generalize. But from your experience, are there any, like, wins or tips you can share with people? I know it's hard because it's like. But, you know, things, mistakes that you see often that you're like, hey, restaurant listeners listening to this WISKing It All podcast, please implement XYZ or please start using x. Like anything you can just share for sure.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:39:58]:

So there's a few things. And you get started, you know, with the basics before, you know, to do. To do marketing properly. Anything for any business, build your database. That's the first thing that I would tell them to do because they do that. Many restaurant owners fail to do that. And they've approached me, you know, when they're, they approach me. Sometimes we're not, when they are not in a good place and they're trying to, hey, man, we need marketing, you know, and when I talk to them, I say, hey, do you have a database? And they're, oh, no, we don't have anything.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:40:30]:

So we got to build that from scratch. So you know how long that's going to take. Right. So we can definitely run ads. We'll do all these different things that you can do. But to make your marketing way more effective and cheaper in the long term, building a database is key. So implementing the systems that you need from, you know, either your, if you have a online ordering system, if you can implement a rewards program where you have an incentive for people to sign up and give you their information. If you have online ordering, either with toast or with, you know, different system that you're using, make sure newsletter or.

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Angelo Esposito [00:41:08]:

Whatever, but basically find a way to collect info.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:41:12]:

Exactly.

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Angelo Esposito [00:41:12]:

Contact info.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:41:14]:

All your digital channels where you're collecting data and grow that as fast and as much as possible. Because once you do that and your marketing is going to be way more effective. Again, the rest of the stuff are channels. You can learn how to use those channels properly in time. Yeah, but if you don't have a database and you don't have anything to go with, and of course this is taking into account that your operation is great. That's right.

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Angelo Esposito [00:41:36]:

Right. Yeah. That's why they use WISK. There's bigger fish to fry and then the labor side, there's, I mean, there's a million other things to do, but, yeah, for sure. Assuming that's like, at least not on fire. And they're trying to, you know. Yeah, got it.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:41:49]:

And one more thing that I would say is have a plan in place from the beginning because that's something that it's looked upon as an expense. Restaurant owners, many restaurant owners, and I talked to them quite a bit all the time. Marketing is considered as a last resource and expense or as like, oh, we gotta do it. And they're just investing the least amount possible, paying their cousin or paying somebody to do it or whatever. And it's, you know, there's no strategies. They're just kind of winging it, you know what I mean? And then when they're in trouble, they're like, oh, I need to find an agency, you know, or to find help or whatever. I need to hire. And they have no clue where they're starting, but they're already in, you know, they're already in it, you know.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:42:31]:

So instead of building it from the beginning, trying to build that later fast, it's, it's just, it's, it's a nightmare. So, you know, I would recommend. That's the first thing that they look at. They can look to hire in house. If they look for. If they're looking for an agency, they can do that as well. They just have to write the fine. They have to find the right partner.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:42:49]:

So not every agency is built the same.

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Angelo Esposito [00:42:51]:

Right. That makes sense. And, you know, I'm curious from your perspective, because you see a lot of these things, you're in the, in the weeds. You're, you know, your team's implementing things from, you know, marketing strategies, paid ads, SEO, you name it, you know, brand. So any interest? Well, the answer is probably yes. But any interesting innovations or, like emerging tech that, like, excite you specifically?

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Sebastian Stahl [00:43:12]:

There's quite a bit of things that are happening, right, in terms of technology. And what I see is, like, all of these, this Technology is going to help reduce labor hours because minimum wage is up. And I understand why, but that's not easy for restaurants. So any of technologies that will help you to streamline that and to lower your cost, that's what I would keep an eye on. And I see the future of restaurants becoming a lot more streamlined in many regards: simpler menus, less people, easier, more effective in execution. And then you will still have your full service, where they deliver a whole experience, but they're gonna be a lot less. So that's what I would say in terms of tech.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:44:03]:

Anything that will help you to control your costs, you know, for sure. You know, I would. I would look at and I would invest on. We were one of the, I mean, the group that I was. I was part of. We were kind of the, you know, one of the first ones doing restaurant 365 at that time. And they helped really streamline a lot of things. And, you know, also toast, I think we were one of the first clients in Miami and take that on in anything again, that could help, you know, streamline the operations.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:44:30]:

We were always big investors in tech because I think if used properly, it can help you quite a bit.

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Angelo Esposito [00:44:36]:

You have to find the right tool for you. But I couldn't agree more. Like, the way I see it is like, listen, there's the restaurant prime cost is called the prime cost for a reason. It's your. It's your main cost. And if you think about the prime cost, there's just really two components, right? You got your labor and you got your cogs, your cost of goods sold. So it's like, you need to manage. Let's do if you're not managing that.

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Angelo Esposito [00:44:53]:

Like, I mean, there's other things too, but I mean, those are quite big. And so, like, if you're not doing it some way somehow, like, you're missing out on a lot. And then I guess lastly is like, what, what advice do you have for restauranters seeking to build, you know, a sustainable brand? Like, I know it might be a loaded question, but just any, any wisdom you can share with people who are like, I want to help build my restaurant. I want to build this brand. Hearing it straight from Sebastian with your.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:45:23]:

Experience, always invest in strategy. Don't wing it because it won't work. And start building about processes and systems from the beginning. I think that's the most important part. That's related to operations, that's related to marketing, that's related to finance, that's related to every part of restaurant business. If you have your processes right and invest in developing those properly, then you have a much better chance of being a sustainable business. Like I said, you know, many people get into restaurant business that are creatives but they don't think about processes and systems and investing in that from, again, from all of that. Then once they're in it, they're, they're a mess because they don't, you're not controlling their cost, you know, their labor, their, you know, their inventories.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:46:15]:

Like everything is a mess. Forget about marketing. I mean, again, they're just kind of winging it. So if you're trying to build a sustainable brand, I think you need to have all those things in place. And the other thing that I would, you know, definitely suggest is think of long, think about it in the long term when it relates to marketing, for example, branding is a huge component of it, you know, and as you've seen, as you know, in this industry, when you're starting out, they'll invest. You know, that's fine. You'll invest in a logo. You don't want to spend $20,000 in a branding package, you know, or 30, whatever.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:46:51]:

But as time goes by, I mean, do have it in your plan to then further develop that because you're investing in building a brand, not just a business, right. Once you build a brand and you invest in that, the chances of building long term value are greater, right? Because now let's say you develop a few units and you invested in developing your brand. Now when, if you want to sell it, it's going to be worth a lot more, right?

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Angelo Esposito [00:47:20]:

Yeah.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:47:20]:

Or if you want to grow and if you're looking for partners to grow, they're going to be a lot more attracted to brands that have been built than just a, let's say a single.

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Angelo Esposito [00:47:29]:

Spot, you know, restaurant generating x amount.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:47:32]:

Yeah, right, exactly.

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Angelo Esposito [00:47:34]:

You're now investing in the brand. That makes sense. That's great advice.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:47:39]:

Anyways, I think that would be my two cent for people if they're into this. It's crazy.

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Angelo Esposito [00:47:45]:

No, yeah, no, but it makes sense. And I guess to wrap things up, what's next for breadth? Right? Like you're working on a bunch of stuff, a bunch of marketing initiatives. What, what's, what's next for you guys?

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Sebastian Stahl [00:47:56]:

We've been developing our team quite a bit and I think we're just really finding the right people. And for us, it's just continuing to help restaurants grow. And I think where we bring a lot of value, again, is just in developing, having the knowledge of the restaurant business and being able to develop everything from scratch for this. And so for us, it's just, you know, our next goal is really, it's always really how we can add more value for restaurants. Right. And then it's finding, we're always on track of what's happening with the industry and finding opportunities where, like I was saying, with the private event stuff that we're doing now because as things are looking, that's something that's of very high value for restaurants. So we're always looking for those type of things. Right.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:48:53]:

So that's really what's, what's next for us.

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Angelo Esposito [00:48:56]:

Awesome. And lastly, I always like to end off with the plugs. So just a chance for you to just say, how can people find Breadth marketing? How can they find you? I know you also have a book out, so maybe a quick look there. We'll also put all these links in the, in the podcast episode and on the pages, but just for people listening to the audio or maybe watching this on YouTube, if you can just plug where they can find you. The book you want to plug.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:49:20]:

Yeah. So they can find us at Breadth. It's not as Breadth as in Breadthing, but Breadth marketing.com. and they can't. So they can find us there. And on their website, they can look, look me up on our show on Instagram. Sebastian Stahl b they'll find me there. And then you can also, if you're interested.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:49:42]:

Yeah. We did publish a book on restaurant marketing called the restaurant Marketing Insider. We actually go through all the strategies that we use to grow our, you know, our businesses. And I get a little bit into, in depth into this. It's not about more Texas. This is a very strategic book, so if you guys are interested, you can look it up on Amazon. It's available there. There's kindle version as well, you know, so that's where you can find us.

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Angelo Esposito [00:50:07]:

I love it. So we'll definitely link that. And I'd love to definitely link the book, too, for people interested. And I'll definitely be picking up a copy, so that'll be awesome. So with that said, thank you for being on the episode. Sebastian, once again, CEO of Breadth marketing. Breadth. B r e a d t h.

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Angelo Esposito [00:50:27]:

For those listening in. Sebastian Stahl, thanks for being here.

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Sebastian Stahl [00:50:30]:

Thanks, Angelo. I appreciate you having me.

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Angelo Esposito [00:50:33]:

Feel free to check out WISK.ai for more resources. And schedule a demo with one of our product specialists to see if it's a fit for.

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